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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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it's the skeptic zone podcast episode

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number 702

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for the 20th of march

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2022

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richard saunders coming to you from

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sydney australia

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where if i hear carefully out the window

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the birds are chirping they're probably

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happy the rain's gone away again

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came back yesterday

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looks like a sunny day today

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a good day for washing

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coming up at the top of the show i speak

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to arjun nirigadu who came to my

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attention just recently as he's produced

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a series on youtube called vulture watch

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no he does not watch vultures well maybe

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he does in a

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in a way of speaking

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he looks at pseudoscience specifically

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things like

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crazy devices

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that are supposed to

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tune your aura or something like that

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and homeopathy anti-vaxxers

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i looked at some of the videos over at

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vulture watch and i learned quite a bit

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about a device called the healy

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which i don't think really does any

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healing at all

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well maybe it does do you want your aura

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tuned up is your aura attitude what tune

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does your aura play did you know that

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bacteria sing songs

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hmm

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find out more coming up at the top of

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the show

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then we catch up with susan gerbic from

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guerrilla skepticism on wikipedia

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she tells us well we sort of eavesdrop

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she tells us about another milestone for

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the group and their efforts to combat

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pseudoscience and bad information on

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wikipedia

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after that i read a letter i read a a

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letter an email sent to my friend and

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colleague brian dunning at the skeptoid

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podcast

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and this letter is from a listener of

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his in russia

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of course much in the news at the moment

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and

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letter coming to brian from russia i

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think you will find this

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quite something

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a sort of an insight into what's going

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on there at the moment

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and to round off the show we go back

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into the trove archives and amongst

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other things we find a review

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of a tv show i used to watch years ago

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called the extraordinary

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oh yes it was sort of an attempt

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to have a paranormal supernatural

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mystery type

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show here in australia with lots of

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reenactments of so-called

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uh paranormal supernatural events

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maybe some australian listeners will

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remember it

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it ran in the uh

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in the mid

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1990s and i discovered

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the program is on youtube

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i'll link to that in the show notes

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but before we start with the first

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segment i'll just

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let you know remind you that i will be

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speaking live

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tomorrow tomorrow night here in

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australia monday the 21st for my dear

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friends at the victorian skeptics the

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vic skeptics oh how i wish i could visit

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you all

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and have a lovely dinner down at lygon

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street anyway i'll be appearing for them

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and you can join in i'll be talking

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about the great australian psychic

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prediction project which i notice has

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been getting a lot of international

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press lately i'm very pleased about that

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it's been published in the skeptic in

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the uk

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rob palmer has had it published in the

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skeptical inquirer in uh

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south america too it's got some notice

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so that's all very good anyway join me

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tomorrow night here in australia again

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the link is in this week's show notes if

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you scroll down to the end of the

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list of today's episode you'll see

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that link

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and i don't know about your part of the

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world but

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the numbers have covered here in

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australia seem to be on the uptick

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and this is because i think of the new

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sub variant

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of omicron so no matter where you are

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please take care

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and if you happen to have covert at the

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moment and you're

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a little bit miserable then we are

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certainly thinking about you

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stay tuned at the end of the episode for

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more announcements from me

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs looking for cats along the

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way who like to sort of hide

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on the stairwell as you run down you've

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got to be very careful

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maybe i'll tiptoe down the stairs

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cook some bread to make toast

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with a bit of pepper okay while i'm

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doing that i hope you enjoy the skeptic

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zone

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[Music]

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and joining me now on the line all the

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way from beautiful sydney australia how

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about that

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it's somebody who i've only just

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discovered recently fascinating bloke an

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interesting uh backlog of work already

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online which we'll get to in a minute

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it's arjun nidhigalu hello arjun hey

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richard it's great to be here

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thank you for having me on good to see

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you

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like everybody else we're relying on

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video conferencing and all that sort of

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stuff we can actually see each other

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face to face which is a really good

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thing now you've been brought to my

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attention by our i imagine our mutual

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friend loretta marin from friends of

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science and medicine who has been a

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guest on the podcast many times before

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and she said look check out this guy's

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videos i thought oh yeah okay i'll have

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a look good recommendation and wow what

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an interesting series you've got up so

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far you call your youtube channel

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vulture watch which is quite interesting

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but before we get into that what's your

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background and what's your interest in

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uh dare i say skepticism yeah i think

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skepticism has been a bit of a savior

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for me

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back when i was quite a religious person

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i was quite pseudo-scientific myself not

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too long ago um and so yeah i feel like

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there's there's a bit of

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making up for me to do

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from that perspective

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so about myself look i arrived in

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australia as an immigrant when i was 11

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years old with my family um couldn't

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barely could speak a word of english but

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had to learn from scratch

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um and so i was interested in

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mathematics and science growing up i

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eventually started engineering and and

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now work as a product manager at an

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automotive company

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so i did spend a good you know 10 years

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tutoring high school mathematics and

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physics

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which taught me how to communicate ideas

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effectively

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um but like i said through most of that

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time

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i was quite religiously inclined you

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know i was a practicing hindu

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a polytheist

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made many pilgrimages to india

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convinced i was destined to become a

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monk it's of some sort

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oh wow um yeah so i practiced meditation

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learned sanskrit uh read all the major

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books the holy books uh but but the more

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i read the less convinced i was um and

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luckily i didn't get suck it into like a

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sunk cost fallacy and

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literally over a period of six to 12

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months so i basically renounced all of

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that and became uh more of a rationalist

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um if you will

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uh so yeah skepticism was was my savior

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in that sense um that's that's

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interesting and and of course this is a

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story

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that is not um not unknown yes you know

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some people follow a very similar path

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to you being brought up in

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one religion or another or one set of

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beliefs or another and discover

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skepticism it's it's

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totally like

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you know in my situation being brought

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up believing in ufos and and monsters

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because when i was a little kid that's

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what i really thought they were really

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as i was getting older coming to the

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realization that oh hang on a second

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that's not the not the full

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story

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anyway so

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you've had this

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this interest and it's obviously had a

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big effect on you but you've actually

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you've done something about it you've

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actually

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i would like to say

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in a sense put pen to paper what i mean

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is you've got in front of the camera and

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you've started this vulture watch what

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can you tell us about that yeah vulture

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watch is is basically my

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my personal venting chamber i suppose uh

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for all the pseudoscience that goes on

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and i and i wanted to make it a a

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systematic

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uh way in which i you know debunk

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claims that are made without any

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evidence so

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the way it started was was actually

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quite a funny story so a man of mine

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took me out to dinner with with another

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friend who i wasn't so aware of but

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she happened to be

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someone who studied psychology

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and she made a claim at that dinner to

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say that prayer was more effective than

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therapy for depression

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which i thought was a pretty bold claim

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especially from someone who studied

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psychology

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um and so she was kind of mapping off

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studies that proved it etc etc and

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and the more i argued against her the

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more i realized how difficult it was to

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to kind of you know

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provide evidence against it um so she

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was kind of using her position as

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someone who's had the education and and

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my friend was more or less convinced at

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the end of that dinner that you know

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prayer is you know

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very useful um so you know i went home

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really frustrated thinking you know how

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could i have argued that better how

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could i've asked more pointed questions

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and so yeah that's how it started and

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months later i came across a video by uh

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jackie vasadev who's like a cult leader

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for lack of a better term um and deepak

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chopra um

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another card leader one might say um so

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they claimed that you know vaccines were

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ineffective um and that you know

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eliminating the covet 19 virus may not

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be

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humanity

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so

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my first video where i just

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jotted down everything they said and i

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had counter arguments with evidence and

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references and things like that

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and once that video came out um the next

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few kind of propped up as things that i

284
00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:53,600
was triggered by

285
00:11:00,150 --> 00:10:56,160
by various people or social media posts

286
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:00,160
and and we're we're only four videos in

287
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:03,120
now but uh it's it's it's only been um a

288
00:11:07,829 --> 00:11:06,160
few months as well so yeah and i noticed

289
00:11:09,829 --> 00:11:07,839
your videos get a lot of comment which

290
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:09,839
is really good let's get back to

291
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:11,519
something you just said you mentioned

292
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:13,120
the name deepak and i was looking at one

293
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:14,880
of your videos the other day and i had

294
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:16,399
to have a laugh because you talk about

295
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,000
the um the deepak chopra zone yes yes

296
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:22,240
what what what do you mean by the deepak

297
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:24,079
chopra zone not the skeptic's own folks

298
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:26,720
but the deepak chopra zone yeah uh so

299
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:28,959
unfortunately it's it's a very big zone

300
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:30,560
i feel it's uh

301
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:32,560
the significant population falls under

302
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:35,519
it basically anyone who understands

303
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:37,519
sciencey words that at a bare minimum

304
00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:39,440
level so they can kind of recognize

305
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:41,360
approximately what it means but don't

306
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:42,959
really know what they mean things like

307
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:46,079
quantum or frequencies or

308
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:47,040
so

309
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:48,720
that's that's kind of the deepak zone

310
00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:50,560
they've had kind of high school

311
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:52,240
education or even primary school

312
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:53,360
education

313
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:54,959
they can recognize the words and they

314
00:12:00,389 --> 00:11:57,360
feel like they're sciency and credible

315
00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:00,399
in some way but they don't really know

316
00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:02,639
what it entails so that's what i call

317
00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:04,560
the deepak zone and it's a huge market

318
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:06,639
you know it's it's uh it's where a lot

319
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:08,959
of these pseudoscientific

320
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:11,920
things are sold and i like it i'm glad

321
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:13,360
somebody's put a name to that because

322
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:15,519
i've you know skeptics have been aware

323
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:17,920
of this concept for a very long time

324
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:19,360
the sort of

325
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:22,639
people who will listen to something uh

326
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:25,440
you know the expression word salad yes

327
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:27,839
just putting free frequencies vibration

328
00:12:32,310 --> 00:12:30,320
quantum yeah you know all together we've

329
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:32,320
seen this for a long time a long time so

330
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:34,800
the deep packed zone i do like that but

331
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:36,639
let's talk uh about one of the videos

332
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:39,279
that i found very interesting now you've

333
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,800
done a video on the healy product yes

334
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,160
and

335
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:46,800
which is i've seen i've seen some of the

336
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:48,480
original videos of the people spooking

337
00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:50,480
this device and i saw your video for

338
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:52,720
people who have never heard of healy

339
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,920
what is it exactly so healy's is an app

340
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:57,920
and it's also a device

341
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:58,720
so

342
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:01,200
it was developed by a gentleman called

343
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:03,920
marcus schmiker in germany

344
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,279
so he postulates that we're all we all

345
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:09,760
have a bioenergetic field around us some

346
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:11,920
of us call it an aura

347
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:14,160
um and apparently we're all part of a

348
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,480
quantum information field that that kind

349
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:19,120
of permeates the whole universe um so

350
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:21,440
he's he's figured out a way of hacking

351
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:25,360
this field which means uh that he can

352
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:26,959
you can put in your photo for example

353
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:29,279
richard into this app and uh it'll it'll

354
00:13:33,030 --> 00:13:31,120
measure your aura um through no

355
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:33,040
connection to your body

356
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:35,760
um and it'll figure out what's going on

357
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,920
with your body it'll figure out if your

358
00:13:41,430 --> 00:13:39,839
chakras are aligned um if you have

359
00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:41,440
energetic blocks

360
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:43,120
uh and then it'll pump out some

361
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:45,199
frequencies in the form of microcurrents

362
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:46,399
through your body

363
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:49,519
to realign you and harmonize you into

364
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:53,279
your field wow yeah so all the all this

365
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:55,279
from an app yeah on your phone

366
00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:56,880
and a little device that pumps out

367
00:14:01,430 --> 00:13:58,480
microcurrents yes

368
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,440
um so they've been the thing about this

369
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:03,040
healy device though is they've been

370
00:14:07,829 --> 00:14:05,120
supremely clever in finding the

371
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:07,839
loopholes in in the regulations

372
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:09,839
uh to make sure that they can sell the

373
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:12,320
product effectively and so with this

374
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:14,079
video i just wanted to bring a bit more

375
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:15,600
awareness and you know i was honestly

376
00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:17,760
shocked at how little criticism this

377
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,399
thing had i mean it's it's an fda

378
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:22,800
cleared product uh it's something that

379
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:24,800
is on the australian register of

380
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:26,959
therapeutic goods so

381
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:28,959
i'm surprised people more people don't

382
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:30,240
have an issue with it especially given

383
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:32,320
that you know it costs upwards of two

384
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:33,199
thousand

385
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:37,440
dollars to to get one of these things

386
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:39,600
oh it's an old story it's an old story i

387
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:41,279
mean over the years i've been doing this

388
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:42,639
over 20 years

389
00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:44,240
i've come across so many products where

390
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:45,440
you look at it and you scratch your head

391
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,360
and say well how how on earth how on

392
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:49,199
earth can this be

393
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,839
uh have any form of government sanction

394
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:53,760
whatsoever but we've seen it again and

395
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:55,839
again which is really sad yeah it is one

396
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:57,279
of the things that

397
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:59,199
that really

398
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:01,040
made me laugh again watching your video

399
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:03,040
was and maybe you can explain this

400
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:05,120
because it really needs explaining what

401
00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:08,000
are the songs of bacteria

402
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:10,639
so taran lee who claims to have brought

403
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,320
healy to australia she's one of the

404
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:14,240
pioneers who brought it to australia so

405
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:17,600
she put out a video uh explaining to

406
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:19,360
normal folk you know how we say explain

407
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:20,959
it to me like i'm a five-year-old i

408
00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:22,720
suppose that's what she said

409
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:25,440
um and she's explaining how bacterial

410
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:27,440
infections in your body have a certain

411
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:29,199
frequency because you know everything is

412
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:32,320
frequency everything is energy um so

413
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:34,320
she's saying that this bacteria is

414
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:35,839
singing a song

415
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:37,600
that the healey is able to pick up

416
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:39,199
through the information field that we

417
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:40,399
talked about before

418
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:44,079
and it's able to send a song back to

419
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,399
get rid of that bacteria is is exactly

420
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:48,240
what she says

421
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:49,040
so

422
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:54,160
a bit of a funny tag for me to to try

423
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:56,079
and capitalize on for the for the video

424
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:56,959
um

425
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,120
so yeah that's where that comes from but

426
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:01,440
it does almost sound like an album by

427
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:03,040
some pop group that's strong as a

428
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,360
bacteria yeah music to listen to while

429
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,720
you're in hospital

430
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:09,120
maybe you're of the same mind as me

431
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,880
and i did spend time to look at some of

432
00:16:14,629 --> 00:16:12,880
the videos of the people you know

433
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:14,639
selling this device

434
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:16,320
and then they're in their backyard or in

435
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:17,680
their house and they're look they're

436
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,839
holding up to the camera

437
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,120
do you think these people are

438
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:23,519
permanently living in the deepak zone in

439
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:24,959
other words

440
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:28,079
lot of these people are convinced this

441
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,839
is real science or real technology yeah

442
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:33,920
i think a lot of it is driven by

443
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,440
conspiracies around the medical mafia or

444
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,199
you know if you the video has only been

445
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:41,360
up a few days now but uh you can already

446
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,800
see the comments the kind of things

447
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:45,040
people are saying um you know i've been

448
00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:48,320
accused of being part of the um you know

449
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:51,519
conventional medical mafia um and oh

450
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:53,839
welcome to the club welcome to the club

451
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:54,959
so

452
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:00,160
lot of it comes from and because they're

453
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:01,920
desperately looking for

454
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:04,720
alternative ways of you know

455
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:06,240
looking at things that they they get

456
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:08,160
sucked into these kind of things and and

457
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,640
yeah they like you said uh that a lot of

458
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:12,079
these people are permanently stuck in

459
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,319
that deepak zone and and part of my

460
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:16,640
efforts with vulture watch is to try and

461
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,160
give them the awareness give them a

462
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:20,160
chance to kind of get out of there like

463
00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:21,760
i did many years ago

464
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,559
now another video in your series so far

465
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:26,640
deals with the subject that i've been

466
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:29,520
looking at for decades now i've had many

467
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:30,960
adventures with this subject which is

468
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,120
homeopathy of course but you take a very

469
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,080
strong stand in your video and you look

470
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:38,799
specifically at the influence homeopathy

471
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:41,039
has in india especially with the indian

472
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:42,080
government

473
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:44,400
yeah i was i was quite shocked when i

474
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:46,080
started making that video it was purely

475
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:48,880
driven by my i suppose lifelong

476
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:51,520
frustration with this because many of my

477
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,240
closest family and friends believe in

478
00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:56,640
this and a lot of my family back in

479
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:58,880
india certainly have wasted you know

480
00:18:03,029 --> 00:18:00,640
thousands if not you know

481
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:03,039
millions of rupees um on these

482
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:05,360
medications and consultations so

483
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:07,919
um the the indian government part of it

484
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:09,760
wasn't originally part of the plan but

485
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:12,320
that i had to include it in the end if i

486
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:15,520
was to be diligent um and basically the

487
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:17,679
union government have set up a whole

488
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:20,480
department a whole ministry in fact um

489
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:24,000
for alternative medical therapies um and

490
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:25,600
i was i was shocked to see how much

491
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:28,080
funding was provided for homeopaths i

492
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:29,360
was shocked to see

493
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,600
how it was legitimized even on their

494
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:33,600
official website so if you can imagine

495
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:35,360
going to a government website and

496
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:36,480
finding

497
00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:38,160
a cure for something as serious as

498
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:40,320
dengue fever

499
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:42,480
as a homeopathic medication with

500
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:44,160
absolutely no supporting evidence i mean

501
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:46,080
that's that's how serious it is and so i

502
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:48,960
had to cover that uh got a lot of flack

503
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:51,840
from it both uh from within the family

504
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:54,000
uh a lot of uh murder supporters in the

505
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,520
family uh and also on on social media

506
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:59,120
but but i think it's important to

507
00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:01,280
recognize that uh when when the

508
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:02,320
government

509
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:03,840
supports something like this it just

510
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:05,919
further legitimizes and you know

511
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:08,559
empowers that pseudo-scientific mindset

512
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:11,679
that people have um and and yeah it's

513
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,520
it's terrible what they've done during

514
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:15,840
the covert crisis uh they were they were

515
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:17,760
spreaking all these homeopathic

516
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:20,000
medications that boost your immunity and

517
00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:22,000
you know they made a fortune out of it

518
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:24,559
um and the government was literally uh

519
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:26,720
you had ministers coming out you know

520
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,440
advocating this kind of thing so it was

521
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:31,280
it was a terrible situation so i thought

522
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,880
it deserved to be exposed

523
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:37,039
it it it is a terrible situation and of

524
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:38,480
course you refer to the indian prime

525
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:40,880
minister who you reference quite a lot

526
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:43,280
in your video folks i'm going to link to

527
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:45,360
vulture watch in this week's show notes

528
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:47,440
but if you go to youtube and you type in

529
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:48,960
vulture watch you'll probably find it

530
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:50,880
anyway but please have a look at the

531
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:52,559
link now i

532
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,559
getting back to the healy one

533
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,919
i was quite impressed by it and i

534
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,840
learned quite a lot because i i knew

535
00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:59,600
little of the product although i've seen

536
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:01,679
similar things like this before over the

537
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:05,039
years quantum and auras and zapping and

538
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:06,880
it's nothing too new

539
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:09,760
it's a continuing disappointment to us

540
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:12,240
i'm sure i'm sure you realize that uh

541
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:13,600
you know the government aren't more

542
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,159
diligent in cracking down on this utter

543
00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:18,480
nonsense are you at all worried about

544
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:21,039
the the healy company coming down on you

545
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:23,679
and trying to gag you in any way yeah i

546
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:26,880
think i've i've purposefully shared the

547
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:29,440
video to a number of uh healy associates

548
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,600
just just to try and get a feel of what

549
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:32,880
they'd say and

550
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:34,480
and it's funny that there's about three

551
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:36,400
or four already in the comments and

552
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:38,000
basically that they haven't offered any

553
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:39,600
counter-argument to what i've presented

554
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:42,080
but uh they're basically saying you know

555
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,440
you haven't tried the healy so you don't

556
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:45,360
know what you're talking about um or

557
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:46,640
like i said before you know you're part

558
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:50,240
of the medical mafia um and and and i

559
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,679
think that's the kind of thing i'll get

560
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:54,240
but also from a defamation perspective

561
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:56,080
you know i i take a bit of care with my

562
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:58,480
videos uh i do consult

563
00:21:02,149 --> 00:21:00,400
um you know a small legal team just to

564
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,159
try and understand what my boundaries

565
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:04,159
are and what i can say and can't say for

566
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:05,200
example

567
00:21:09,789 --> 00:21:07,760
christian halper the the investor behind

568
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:09,799
healy who claims to be a

569
00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:12,480
multi-billionaire um you know i can't

570
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,480
come out on my video and say he's not

571
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,559
because i can't provide even evidence

572
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,799
for that so i've got to be careful

573
00:21:22,549 --> 00:21:20,880
around things like that yeah

574
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:22,559
but apart from that i think we're going

575
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,039
to get uh healey uh reacting to this

576
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,120
video because there hasn't been anything

577
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:29,520
out there at least that i'm aware of

578
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:31,840
that has been so uh comprehensive in

579
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:34,240
terms of uh you know dismantling their

580
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:35,679
whole narrative

581
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,919
um so yeah we'll have to wait and see um

582
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:42,000
yeah but we'll we will keep an eye on

583
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:43,520
that with great interest

584
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:45,679
folks i can't i can't recommend these

585
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:47,360
videos enough they're really worth a

586
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:50,159
look i mean if nothing else you'll learn

587
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:52,559
about one quack product in particular

588
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:55,760
the healey device and how outrageously

589
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:58,159
silly to our point of view because you

590
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:59,679
know when you have a little bit of a

591
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,520
science background and you've seen these

592
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:03,360
things come and go over the years you

593
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:05,120
realize just how silly

594
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:07,039
these devices are you know tune up your

595
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:09,600
auras with an iphone that's it basically

596
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,280
boils down to something like that

597
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:13,280
exactly

598
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:15,120
it's it's just incredible it's just

599
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:17,200
incredible well arjun thank you so much

600
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,720
for sparing some time for the skeptic

601
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:20,559
zone folks again have a look at those

602
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:23,039
videos and we'll try to catch up with

603
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:24,640
you a bit down the track maybe when you

604
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:27,679
have a another video or two online yeah

605
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,559
uh we can we can talk about sounds great

606
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:31,919
thank you so much richard it's been an

607
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:33,760
honor and you know i've followed your

608
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:35,600
work over the years particularly since

609
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:38,080
covet and you know i think you provide a

610
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,000
great source of rational knowledge

611
00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:42,960
entertainment all in one package so i'm

612
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,559
good on you and yeah it's been a

613
00:22:48,149 --> 00:22:46,320
pleasure

614
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:48,159
well you'll be definitely back again

615
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,360
absolutely

616
00:22:55,550 --> 00:22:51,600
but for now arjun nidigalu thank you

617
00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:03,909
[Music]

618
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:06,149
i'm mick west in my podcast tales from

619
00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:07,440
the rabbit hole i have extended

620
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,799
conversations with people who've been

621
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:11,200
involved in conspiracy culture i do this

622
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:12,799
for a couple of reasons firstly because

623
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:14,080
it's really interesting these people

624
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:15,760
have great stories about how they fell

625
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,520
down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole

626
00:23:21,029 --> 00:23:19,280
what they did down there and what it was

627
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:21,039
that helped them out sometimes i also

628
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:22,240
talk to people who investigate

629
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:23,520
conspiracy theories and they have

630
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,039
equally fascinating stories from the

631
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,360
other side secondly i want to understand

632
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:28,640
how best to prevent the spread of

633
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,320
conspiracy theories and misinformation

634
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,159
which is an increasing problem in a time

635
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:34,559
when alternative media is exploding the

636
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:36,400
best way to do this is to communicate

637
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:38,400
effectively with the people involved and

638
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:40,400
the best way to do that is with a nice

639
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:41,840
long chat

640
00:23:46,830 --> 00:23:44,400
check it out tales from the rabbit hole

641
00:24:06,230 --> 00:23:46,840
tftrh.com

642
00:24:08,730 --> 00:24:06,240
[Music]

643
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:08,740
i think we need to think

644
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:14,159
[Music]

645
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:24,080
i go to bed tonight and it's that gso w

646
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:27,039
has just written it's and published page

647
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:28,880
2001

648
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:30,559
and it just happened out of the blue i

649
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:32,480
was like wait a minute how many we got

650
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:34,480
and i was like what we hit 2000

651
00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:35,760
yesterday

652
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:37,520
and so i think that's pretty exciting

653
00:24:45,029 --> 00:24:42,000
2001 pages we have published and 45 are

654
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:45,039
in languages other than english which is

655
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:46,480
pretty pretty awesome because i don't

656
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:48,400
know of any other project anywhere that

657
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,600
is trying to be um so inclusive to have

658
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:53,120
other languages as well because it's

659
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:54,880
just as important nonsense and

660
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:56,880
misinformation is

661
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,039
is everywhere congratulations susan

662
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:01,120
that's that's really fantastic news and

663
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:02,640
you're saying you're going to be

664
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,880
speaking for the gold coast skeptics

665
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:07,039
here in australia what can you tell us

666
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:09,120
what can you tell us about that

667
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,039
oh well it's going to be in april it's

668
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:13,200
coming up pretty darn soon as far as i'm

669
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:15,360
concerned gold coast skeptics which is a

670
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:18,240
really big group but it's very active

671
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:20,799
and uh i was speaking there last

672
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,799
time i was in australia which was

673
00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:24,960
2019.

674
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:28,240
in the before times every yeah yeah so

675
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:29,440
i'm going to be speaking to the gold

676
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:32,480
coast skeptics april 16th which is a

677
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:33,760
saturday

678
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:35,840
my time i think

679
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:40,630
i don't know i'll just show up when i'm

680
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:42,320
told to show up you'll figure it out all

681
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:43,760
the time you'll figure it out

682
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,159
continuously in the hopes that maybe i

683
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:48,240
hit them right but that's going to be

684
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:51,440
um via you know over the years yeah

685
00:25:55,269 --> 00:25:53,440
well that's great and folks i shall add

686
00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:55,279
a link to that in this week's show notes

687
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:56,720
don't forget to check that out if you

688
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,600
want to see

689
00:26:01,510 --> 00:26:00,159
susan gerbic in person on your computer

690
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:01,520
screen speaking for the gold coast

691
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,240
skeptics check out that link susan and

692
00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:06,880
congratulations on that another another

693
00:26:11,950 --> 00:26:08,840
milestone for guerrilla skepticism on

694
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:11,960
wikipedia yeah isn't that amazing

695
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:13,760
2001.

696
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:15,200
we have just

697
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:17,760
i'm so proud of my people it just amazes

698
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:20,000
me all the time and here's another one a

699
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:22,320
skeptical odyssey there you go

700
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:24,240
skepticals and here's the other thing

701
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:26,400
you can add to that when i just

702
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:28,480
refreshed because of course we keep

703
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,760
track of all the page views those

704
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:34,080
wikipedia pages we've written because

705
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:36,320
kyle polish from the data skeptic

706
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:38,880
has written a program for me we called

707
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:41,760
stat badger and that keeps track of

708
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,320
everything for us so i remember the last

709
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,279
time i think i was on the skeptic zone

710
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:49,520
we had hit a hundred million page views

711
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:51,200
i think that sounds familiar i think

712
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:54,080
that was the number so now

713
00:26:59,149 --> 00:26:55,600
because of uh

714
00:27:01,240 --> 00:26:59,159
the power of refreshing computer it is

715
00:27:02,470 --> 00:27:01,250
110 million

716
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:02,480
[Music]

717
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:04,400
and 11 000

718
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:08,400
so one one zero zero one one

719
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:10,880
eight five eight that's almost binary

720
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:12,400
that's that's pretty good

721
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:14,880
if we were uh if we were into numerology

722
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:17,360
and all the mirroring in this one one

723
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,799
zero zero one one eight five eight you

724
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:22,320
guys i'm gonna have to don't ever

725
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:24,640
refresh again i'll never i should get

726
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,640
because that's not the case i guess take

727
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,799
a screenshot i will i will definitely be

728
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,720
putting up a screenshot actually

729
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:32,640
it's not it's done for the whole day it

730
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:34,640
only updates once a day so it'll be it's

731
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:36,240
one two three four five six seven eight

732
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:39,679
nine take a screenshot oh okay i'll wait

733
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,320
it's just a random it only puts in once

734
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:44,320
so it'll take about an hour would you

735
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:45,760
take a screenshot and edit it and we'll

736
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:47,600
make believe it's really no i'm good

737
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:50,159
it's an awesome number it's really great

738
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:52,480
i know i'm not i'm not just confident

739
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:53,840
and now they're starting to argue so

740
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:55,760
this is how it goes

741
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:01,510
what

742
00:28:06,190 --> 00:28:05,120
when you get on the zoom with susan

743
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:06,200
gerbic

744
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:09,520
110 million page views thank you

745
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:10,720
thank you

746
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:13,039
110 million pages

747
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:14,559
2001

748
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:15,850
that's why

749
00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:21,600
[Laughter]

750
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:23,919
and richard saunders

751
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:25,760
thank you so much the skeptic zone has

752
00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:26,640
been

753
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:29,120
a big reason why we have editors i'm

754
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:30,559
pleased to hear it all the promotion

755
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:34,000
you've done over the years thank you

756
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,559
[Music]

757
00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:48,240
be reasonable is the interview show from

758
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:50,480
the merseyside skeptic society where

759
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:51,840
each month i speak to someone about

760
00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:53,919
their fringe beliefs over the years i've

761
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:56,399
spoken to psychics ufo believers moon

762
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,480
landing and eyes flat earthers hollow

763
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:00,240
earthers and all manner of unusual

764
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:02,240
conspiracy theorists but i've also

765
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:03,919
talked to aids denialists white

766
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:06,559
supremacists gay conversion therapists i

767
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,159
even interviewed jim humble the inventor

768
00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:10,240
of miracle mineral supplement a form of

769
00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:11,440
industrial beliefs that he and his

770
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:14,080
followers use to treat cancer and hiv

771
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,159
this isn't a debate sure my aim isn't to

772
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:18,240
win an argument but when we listen to

773
00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:20,640
how people promote and justify the ideas

774
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:22,720
that we disagree with even the dangerous

775
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:24,559
ones i think we become much more

776
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:26,640
effective at countering those ideas

777
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:27,840
if that sounds like something you'd be

778
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:30,000
interested in look for be reasonable on

779
00:29:36,450 --> 00:29:31,919
apple podcasts and everywhere else the

780
00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:58,710
[Music]

781
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:01,590
with the ongoing terrible situation we

782
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:03,760
see every day on the news reports from

783
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:04,960
ukraine

784
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:07,360
i thought i would with permission with

785
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,880
permission i thought i would read this

786
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:10,720
letter out received by my friend and

787
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:12,080
colleague brian dunning over the

788
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:14,000
skeptoid podcast

789
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:15,120
and this

790
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:16,640
email this

791
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:18,399
message he received

792
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,000
is from russia

793
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:22,159
and i thought you would find it

794
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:23,520
particularly

795
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:24,720
interesting

796
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,200
in the covering note brian says an email

797
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,840
received from a russian subscriber to

798
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:31,679
the skeptoid podcast

799
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:33,919
i gave him two years complementary

800
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:35,440
premium access

801
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:38,080
and am happy to do the same for any

802
00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:39,760
other subscribers

803
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:41,279
inside russia

804
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:44,480
posted with permission last name removed

805
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,880
at his request

806
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:48,640
and i think after hearing this you'll

807
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,240
understand

808
00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:52,480
brian's motivations

809
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:54,399
the email says

810
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:57,679
dear brian hello my name is ivan i have

811
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:00,399
been listening and supporting skeptoid

812
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:01,840
for a long time

813
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:02,720
you

814
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:05,039
are doing absolutely amazing work thank

815
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,159
you

816
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,799
unfortunately i can no longer show my

817
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,279
support financially international

818
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:13,919
payments from russia no longer work and

819
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:16,559
even if visa and mastercard revert their

820
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:19,200
decision the ruble to the dollar rate

821
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:21,840
makes everything in the real world

822
00:31:27,269 --> 00:31:24,240
unacceptably expensive

823
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:27,279
i hope a day will come when i will be

824
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:30,080
able to renew my subscription the last

825
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:32,480
two weeks i find myself living in all

826
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:34,880
wells 1984.

827
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:37,679
the state quite literally says that war

828
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:38,960
is peace

829
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:40,720
freedom is slavery

830
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:42,720
and ignorance is strength

831
00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:45,039
doublethink is widespread

832
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:47,200
the thought police is demanding that

833
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:49,679
people unlock their phones and show them

834
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:52,080
the conversations and apps

835
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:55,200
the last illusion of democracy in russia

836
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,600
was very quickly shaken off there are

837
00:32:02,070 --> 00:31:59,360
laws now that directly contradict the

838
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:02,080
constitution and human rights and police

839
00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:03,919
brutality grows

840
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:05,519
every day

841
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:07,760
war is the greatest test of critical

842
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:10,240
thinking i can imagine i wish i didn't

843
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,480
know that first hand

844
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,640
i feel exhausted trying to find the

845
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:16,720
truth in an absolute avalanche of

846
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:19,279
information the hardest thing is that my

847
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:21,120
own parents refuse to believe anything i

848
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:24,080
say they willingly put themselves into

849
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:26,880
information bubbles and don't listen to

850
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:29,840
anything else they refuse to even

851
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:32,399
consider alternative sources other than

852
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:35,440
openly state supported propaganda

853
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:36,720
machines

854
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:38,880
trying to talk to them is like hitting

855
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:41,600
your head against a wall

856
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,399
smart educated young russian people

857
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:47,039
don't support the war they don't support

858
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:50,799
putin and his cruel corrupt regime

859
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:54,080
we feel our future is stolen from us

860
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:57,440
and our country hates us and now our

861
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:00,799
country made the whole world hate us

862
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:02,720
sorry for venting and thank you for

863
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:03,919
reading

864
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,360
kind regards

865
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:07,120
ivan

866
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:09,039
what a powerful letter that is what a

867
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:10,960
powerful letter that is

868
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:13,679
and uh ivan is quite right

869
00:33:19,149 --> 00:33:15,360
that uh it appears that they find

870
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,159
themselves living in orwell's

871
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:21,440
1984. if you haven't read the book or

872
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:25,760
seen the movie it's uh it's a milestone

873
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:27,760
of literature i think

874
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:29,919
unbelievably

875
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:34,480
in the real world

876
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:36,000
once again

877
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:37,519
so thank you to brian dunning for

878
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:40,480
allowing me to share that with you

879
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:42,799
and good on you brian for

880
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:45,600
your policy there because i guess those

881
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:46,960
people

882
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:49,360
in uh russia

883
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:51,039
are certainly in

884
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,640
dire need

885
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:54,799
of good information

886
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:56,559
and of course without going into details

887
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:59,039
or names i do know russian people

888
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:00,480
here in australia

889
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,200
and i can assure you that they are

890
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:05,679
saddened and horrified at the events

891
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:07,519
unfolding

892
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,560
now before before long i hope to catch

893
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:12,560
up with brian

894
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:15,679
if not in person then certainly online

895
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,159
for an interview so in the following

896
00:34:22,810 --> 00:34:20,560
weeks sometime down the track keep an

897
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:22,820
eye out for that

898
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:37,190
g'day this is dr karl karl krishninsky

899
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:38,560
proud to be a skeptic and you can find

900
00:34:45,820 --> 00:34:40,960
out more about me at drcarl.com and get

901
00:34:45,830 --> 00:35:03,430
[Music]

902
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:05,510
now it's time once again to head back to

903
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:08,000
those archives at the trove the treasure

904
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:10,160
trove of digital goodness at

905
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:15,510
your online resource from the australian

906
00:35:18,069 --> 00:35:17,040
government and the national library of

907
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:18,079
australia

908
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:19,440
chock-a-block

909
00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:22,240
full to the brim with digital

910
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:24,320
archives

911
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:27,040
and in keeping with our theme from last

912
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:28,960
week we're going to be looking at more

913
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:31,359
articles which mention paranormal

914
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:32,720
psychics

915
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:39,190
[Music]

916
00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:41,920
and our first entry comes from

917
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:44,520
may the 10th of may

918
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:48,240
1993 from the canberra times and it's a

919
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,280
review of a tv program i remember

920
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:53,599
i do remember this program

921
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,970
all those years ago

922
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,400
[Music]

923
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:58,720
and this is by ian warden

924
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:01,280
extraordinary claims of

925
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,270
[Music]

926
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:09,680
these questions the human mind cannot

927
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:11,359
answer

928
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:12,480
out of reach

929
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:15,680
past all we can see hear and touch

930
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:18,240
beyond all we understand

931
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:26,870
the extraordinary

932
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:33,440
found she had lived before

933
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:36,240
a past life experience

934
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:39,760
a nightmare revisited under hypnosis

935
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:43,440
as sandra relives her own death

936
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,320
my foot caught in the hoop with that

937
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:48,720
i rolled and fell

938
00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:50,800
and ended up in a heap on the bottom of

939
00:37:00,690 --> 00:36:52,710
the stairs

940
00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:04,310
[Music]

941
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:07,190
good evening i'm warwick moss

942
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:09,920
what was so refreshing about sandra

943
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:11,119
hill's

944
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,839
past life regression

945
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:15,520
just one of the several

946
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:19,520
mundane items in the extraordinary

947
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:21,839
prime which is a tv network primed

948
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:23,599
thursday 8 30 pm

949
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:27,119
was that she did not seem to have been

950
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:28,720
anyone special

951
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:30,960
in her past life

952
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:33,520
most people who claim to have had past

953
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:35,520
lives claimed to have been someone

954
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:36,640
famous

955
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:39,040
chopin perhaps

956
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:42,480
boudicca or vlad the impaler

957
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,040
and to have done great things

958
00:37:49,990 --> 00:37:47,760
but sandra only claimed to have been a

959
00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:50,000
slip of a gal who lived near

960
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:51,440
campbelltown

961
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:54,800
in the 1860s and indeed only claimed to

962
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:57,680
be able to remember being a clumsy girl

963
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:00,000
tripping over her dress and falling down

964
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:03,520
some stairs to her death in her haste to

965
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:05,599
greet her lover who was standing at the

966
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:07,359
foot of the stairs

967
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:10,400
her modesty was beguiling and certainly

968
00:38:15,589 --> 00:38:13,040
seemed to be guile the program's anchor

969
00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:15,599
credulist warrick moss

970
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:18,480
who heard her story to us with the help

971
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:21,200
of sandra herself

972
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:22,000
one

973
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:24,320
searched sandra's eyes to see if they

974
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:27,200
betrayed her as a fiber

975
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:30,480
but of course it was a characteristic of

976
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:33,119
credulists who claim to have had

977
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:36,000
extraordinary experiences that what may

978
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:39,280
begin in their hearts as a fib

979
00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:41,680
eventually takes on after it has been

980
00:38:48,550 --> 00:38:44,839
lied about often enough a semblance of

981
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:48,560
truth this is why 100 million people are

982
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:51,520
able to claim with complete sincerity

983
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,000
that they were at woodstock when in fact

984
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:56,480
they were at queen bien or paris texas

985
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:57,839
instead

986
00:39:02,069 --> 00:38:59,200
skeptics have

987
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:02,079
plainly lost the good fight we have

988
00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:04,800
fought with all our might against the

989
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:08,000
new age forces of credulism

990
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:10,560
thursday's hour of the extraordinary

991
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:14,000
with its tripe about past lives ufos

992
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:16,560
miracle workers posthumous priests and

993
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:19,920
eerie clever dolphins was succeeded on

994
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:22,400
prime by another hour of the same new

995
00:39:27,910 --> 00:39:24,320
age dross

996
00:39:30,790 --> 00:39:27,920
in miracles and other wonders 9 30 pm

997
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:30,800
one gives crime credit for knowing what

998
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,359
viewers want but the thought that they

999
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:35,760
perhaps most of them school teachers

1000
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:37,839
university vice chancellors and members

1001
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:40,240
of the australian capital territory

1002
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,760
house of assembly

1003
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:43,520
want two hours of immersion in

1004
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:46,079
superstition is somehow depressing in

1005
00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:47,680
the extreme

1006
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:50,880
both programs began on thursday with

1007
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:54,000
intellectually outrageous assertions

1008
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,599
flashbacks

1009
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:57,359
deja vu

1010
00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:00,560
feelings that we've been here before

1011
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,960
sensations we've all felt at some time

1012
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:04,480
or another

1013
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:06,480
purred warwick

1014
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:09,200
we haven't all felt them this columnist

1015
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:12,160
for example has never felt any of them

1016
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:14,560
it is true that visiting sprawling

1017
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:17,280
featureless sweeto outside johannesburg

1018
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,760
i had the temporary sensation of having

1019
00:40:24,870 --> 00:40:22,400
been there before but then i realized

1020
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:24,880
that i was only recalling instead a

1021
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:27,119
visit to tugrano

1022
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:28,720
sometimes

1023
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,160
drawled darren mcgavin anchor charlatan

1024
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:34,240
of miracles and other wonders

1025
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:37,359
there are wondrous events which occur to

1026
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:40,000
average people that defy rational

1027
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:41,280
explanation

1028
00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:42,480
but of course

1029
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:44,319
even when those average people who claim

1030
00:40:49,510 --> 00:40:47,119
to have experienced some wondrous event

1031
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:49,520
and not lying there are only every

1032
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:53,200
events which defy rational explanation

1033
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:56,640
if one is utterly resistant to

1034
00:41:01,670 --> 00:40:59,280
because they are so boring

1035
00:41:03,910 --> 00:41:01,680
rational explanations

1036
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:03,920
the following dramas are inspired by

1037
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:05,599
real stories

1038
00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:08,319
miracles and other wonders assured us in

1039
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:10,400
an attempt to impress

1040
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:12,800
but of course this is a sentiment that

1041
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:16,000
is also true of so many mickey mouse

1042
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:17,520
cartoons

1043
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:20,240
nothing in miracles and other wonders

1044
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:23,520
seem particularly miraculous or

1045
00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:24,640
wonderful

1046
00:41:30,550 --> 00:41:27,280
the story of a woman who had been asleep

1047
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:30,560
alone in her bed when a kind of guardian

1048
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:33,280
ghost appeared unto her scaring her

1049
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:36,960
almost guanalis and advising her to

1050
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:39,760
look outside your window girl which she

1051
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:43,040
did seeing and scaring a prowler who was

1052
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:44,960
later caught by the police

1053
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:47,680
only inspired the thought that a more

1054
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:49,760
thoughtful ghost would have left the

1055
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:52,880
girl asleep and would have appeared

1056
00:41:57,510 --> 00:41:56,240
to the prowler instead haunting him off

1057
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:57,520
the premises

1058
00:42:03,430 --> 00:41:59,920
as it was the inconsiderate specter

1059
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:03,440
subjected the girl to two nasty frights

1060
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:06,079
the wizard catholic priest and where

1061
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:08,079
would programs about the paranormal be

1062
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:10,560
without the contribution of papists

1063
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:13,680
who claimed to have been talking for 37

1064
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,839
years to a saintly priest who had been

1065
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:17,839
dead for 200 years

1066
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:19,599
could have been prosecuting these rather

1067
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:21,599
one-sided conversations for all sorts of

1068
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:24,640
reasons other than the profited one

1069
00:42:28,150 --> 00:42:26,800
that the late priest was there to be

1070
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:28,160
spoken to

1071
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:31,760
the old living priest could for example

1072
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:34,560
have been dotty

1073
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,200
the rational explanation that left to

1074
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:39,359
mind during the extraordinary for the

1075
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:40,319
claim

1076
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:43,520
of the chunky actor lou ferrigno who

1077
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:46,400
played the incredible hulk

1078
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:49,680
that he had seen his uncle pete glowing

1079
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:53,040
just before he uncle pete dropped dead

1080
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:56,319
at a hitherto happy wedding was that lou

1081
00:43:01,109 --> 00:42:59,599
was mistaken he seemed

1082
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:01,119
incredibly thick

1083
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:02,800
and then the light can play

1084
00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:05,440
extraordinary tricks i remember one day

1085
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:07,760
sitting in the house of representatives

1086
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:10,400
and seeing a shaft of sunlight pick out

1087
00:43:15,270 --> 00:43:12,800
for special illumination

1088
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:15,280
the prime minister mr hawke

1089
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:19,200
had i been a credulist and an admirer of

1090
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:21,040
that horrible little man it would have

1091
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:24,079
been easy to imagine that he had somehow

1092
00:43:28,470 --> 00:43:26,880
been singled out for transfiguration

1093
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:28,480
no doubt the thought occurred to mr

1094
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:30,720
hawke the most vain of men

1095
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,760
and perhaps we will hear his account of

1096
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:35,760
this extraordinary event

1097
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:38,000
in the next series of

1098
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:40,079
the extraordinary

1099
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:42,079
thursdays was the last of the current

1100
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:43,119
series

1101
00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:46,160
but as it ended a disembodied voice told

1102
00:43:51,030 --> 00:43:47,920
us with a

1103
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,040
rapture i could not share

1104
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,119
your response to this first series has

1105
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:55,280
been so great that we're definitely

1106
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:57,040
planning a new series for later this

1107
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:58,480
year

1108
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:01,280
in the whole two hours of miracles

1109
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,240
the most miraculous event i saw depicted

1110
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:06,640
was during an advertising break

1111
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:09,680
in which a product made by the ajax

1112
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:12,079
company was used to clean up a nasty

1113
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:13,119
stain

1114
00:44:22,650 --> 00:44:15,119
on a stove

1115
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:24,790
[Music]

1116
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:28,079
ah yes the extraordinary

1117
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:30,000
and now we'll flip over to the united

1118
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:32,319
states and we look at the brownsville

1119
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:34,640
herald dated sunday

1120
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:36,400
june 29

1121
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:39,040
1997

1122
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:42,319
ufo witness recalls the day earth was

1123
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:43,440
visited

1124
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:45,920
now this does sound dramatic

1125
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:48,560
by martha mendoza associated press

1126
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:51,280
writer roswell new mexico

1127
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:54,560
in an old west ranching town

1128
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:57,119
sitting in a conservative brick home

1129
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,319
an 80-year-old man is talking about the

1130
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,640
time he saw the aliens

1131
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:05,280
frank kaufman doesn't seem crazy he

1132
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:08,240
seems nice if a bit grumpy about the

1133
00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:11,440
recent influx of ufo buffs you've got

1134
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:13,760
these guys coming out of the woodwork

1135
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:16,720
kaufman says there's people who said

1136
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:18,640
they've been abducted

1137
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:20,400
there's women claiming they've given

1138
00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:22,720
birth to alien babies that's just a

1139
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:24,319
bunch of crap see

1140
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:26,319
but kaufman too

1141
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:28,319
has a story to tell

1142
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:30,560
this is a town where regular people

1143
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:32,960
respectable folk merchants military

1144
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:35,599
veterans and city officials

1145
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:39,280
speak candidly about the day they heard

1146
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:42,640
about or were involved somehow in

1147
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,200
helping recover a crashed ufo

1148
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:47,280
and the bodies of aliens killed in the

1149
00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:48,160
crash

1150
00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:50,160
their stories are part of a growing

1151
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:54,400
legend commonly referred to as quote the

1152
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:57,599
roswell incident end quote which locals

1153
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:00,079
will cash in this week with an

1154
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:03,440
anniversary bash expected to boost the

1155
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:04,960
local economy

1156
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:06,720
kaufman a retired government

1157
00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:09,200
intelligence agent first went public

1158
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:11,440
with his story three years ago

1159
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:14,400
since then he's repeated it about ten

1160
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:15,440
times

1161
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:18,319
i'm somewhat leery about giving

1162
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:20,800
interviews because i don't want to be

1163
00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:24,160
classed in with these jokers

1164
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:25,680
these wannabes

1165
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,560
these

1166
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:28,720
would-bes he says

1167
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:31,359
50 years ago kaufman says he and several

1168
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:33,760
other civilian and military personnel

1169
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:36,720
working at the roswell army airfield

1170
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:39,440
were dispatched to check on reports of a

1171
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:42,400
fireball that had crashed northwest of

1172
00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:43,520
town

1173
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:45,359
they soon found the site

1174
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:48,000
the glow was visible he says from the

1175
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:50,480
highway we were two to three hundred

1176
00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:53,440
yards from the impact area and it didn't

1177
00:46:59,589 --> 00:46:56,160
look like a plane it wasn't anything

1178
00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:59,599
like a missile it was kind of a strange

1179
00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:01,119
looking craft

1180
00:47:05,829 --> 00:47:02,400
kind of a

1181
00:47:07,750 --> 00:47:05,839
horseshoe almost a stealth bomber type

1182
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:07,760
shape he says

1183
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:11,200
after crews in safety suits made sure

1184
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:13,760
the area was not toxically

1185
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:16,560
contaminated kaufman says he approached

1186
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:19,760
the downed craft for a closer look

1187
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:22,160
when we saw what it was

1188
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:25,280
this strange craft and the bodies

1189
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:28,480
we were just shocked he says

1190
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:32,160
we radioed in to have body bags sent out

1191
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:34,640
and they were carted off to some base

1192
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:35,760
hospital

1193
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:38,240
the craft itself was loaded onto a

1194
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:42,000
flatbed with a tarp on it and driven

1195
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:44,800
right down main street to the base he

1196
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:48,160
describes five dead aliens one was

1197
00:47:54,390 --> 00:47:51,440
thrown out he was up against the arroyo

1198
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:54,400
one was affian half out and the other

1199
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:56,400
three were inside

1200
00:48:02,790 --> 00:47:59,599
he says he says they didn't have big

1201
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:02,800
eyes or long stringy fingers

1202
00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:05,599
he says they were trim good looking

1203
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:06,640
people

1204
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:09,359
they were hairless and had kind of a

1205
00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:11,440
ash colored skin

1206
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:15,520
they were maybe five foot three or five

1207
00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:16,800
foot four

1208
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:18,000
he says

1209
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:20,559
the most amazing thing says kaufman

1210
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:23,760
is that the craft had no fuel

1211
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:24,640
just

1212
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,079
a series of octagonal shaped cells

1213
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:30,960
kaufman says he and his colleagues

1214
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:33,680
for security reasons took on a monkey

1215
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:34,640
oath

1216
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:37,839
the evening after visiting the site

1217
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:40,480
we saw nothing we heard nothing and we

1218
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,920
will say nothing

1219
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,280
he says

1220
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:45,839
and for 47 years kaufman says he stuck

1221
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:47,119
to the vow

1222
00:48:51,990 --> 00:48:49,280
then three years ago as several books

1223
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:52,000
were published and a variety of alleged

1224
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,520
witnesses began speaking up kaufman told

1225
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:58,000
his story to an author

1226
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:00,800
he insisted at first that his name not

1227
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:02,400
be revealed

1228
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:04,240
but these days after repeating his tale

1229
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:06,319
a number of times kaufman is a bit more

1230
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:07,839
candid

1231
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:10,319
i'm not going to be around much longer

1232
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:11,440
he says

1233
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:13,760
folks might as well know

1234
00:49:17,790 --> 00:49:15,839
the first ufo stories came out of

1235
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:17,800
roswell in early july

1236
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:19,359
1947

1237
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:21,040
after the military issued a press

1238
00:49:24,870 --> 00:49:23,520
release that a flying disc had been

1239
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:24,880
recovered

1240
00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:27,280
higher military authorities refuted the

1241
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:29,599
information the following day

1242
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:31,680
saying it was a weather balloon but the

1243
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:34,160
release had already been reprinted on

1244
00:49:38,470 --> 00:49:36,720
newswires and in newspapers around the

1245
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:38,480
world

1246
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:41,520
and mack brazil a corona area rancher

1247
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:44,559
told reporters he found a crumpled mess

1248
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:47,440
of strange metal while riding the range

1249
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:49,359
to check his livestock after a

1250
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:51,920
particularly stormy night it wouldn't

1251
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:55,040
tear it wouldn't ignite brazil took it

1252
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:56,640
to the sheriff

1253
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:58,880
chaves county sheriff or could be chavs

1254
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:00,800
i'm not sure how that's pronounced

1255
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:03,119
george wilcox thought the debris might

1256
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:05,599
be a crashed plane from the roswell army

1257
00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:09,680
airfield so he contacted major jesse

1258
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,359
marcel the post's intelligence officer

1259
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:15,599
led by brazil a group of military

1260
00:50:19,589 --> 00:50:17,680
officers went to the site according to

1261
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:19,599
some accounts several large pieces of

1262
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:22,079
the unusual metal were recovered on the

1263
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:24,720
brazil ranch along with the corpse of

1264
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:27,920
four or five aliens theories abound how

1265
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:30,800
wreckage and aliens could have been seen

1266
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:33,200
and recovered in different places

1267
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:36,240
one contends two flying sources collided

1268
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:39,200
showering debris on one ranch and

1269
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:40,720
leaving two

1270
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:43,280
demolished aircraft and several alien

1271
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:44,240
bodies

1272
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,319
at another two sites

1273
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:48,480
the general accounting office the

1274
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:52,000
investigative arm of congress in a 1995

1275
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,240
report said that records from the

1276
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:56,880
roswell base of the late 1940s had been

1277
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:58,240
destroyed

1278
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:00,800
the gao was unable to determine what

1279
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:03,040
happened and said the

1280
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:05,920
quote debate on what crashed at roswell

1281
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,400
continues main quote lieutenant walter

1282
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:10,800
hout was at roswell army airfield in

1283
00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:14,079
1947. he was the public information

1284
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:15,359
officer

1285
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:17,839
who issued the press release but howt

1286
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:21,280
now 74 wasn't told exactly where the

1287
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:24,319
flying disc reported in his news release

1288
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:27,280
was found nor did he himself ever see a

1289
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:28,960
ufo

1290
00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:31,680
but he remains a believer

1291
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:34,400
there must have been something in the

1292
00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:36,559
skies at the time

1293
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:37,680
he says

1294
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:40,079
there's just too much evidence glenn

1295
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,440
dennis 72 a retired mortician

1296
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:45,760
who says he got a call from the military

1297
00:51:51,670 --> 00:51:49,200
base during the first week of july 1947

1298
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:51,680
asking for several small hermetically

1299
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:53,280
sealed coffins

1300
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:56,160
he also wanted to know about procedures

1301
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:58,720
for picking up bodies that had been left

1302
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:01,200
in the elements for several days

1303
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:04,480
possibly mutilated by predators dennis

1304
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:05,520
says

1305
00:52:11,270 --> 00:52:08,400
i asked if i could help he declined

1306
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:11,280
kaufman meanwhile contends classified

1307
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:13,920
information remains that he will take to

1308
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:16,480
his grave it's extremely important to

1309
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,800
our national security that some of the

1310
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,400
information surrounding this case

1311
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:22,079
remains secret

1312
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:23,200
he says

1313
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:25,359
there are things that the public is

1314
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:28,090
never going to be able to learn

1315
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:29,440
[Music]

1316
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:32,319
oh roswell roswell new mexico the gift

1317
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:35,040
that keeps on giving although really you

1318
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:42,230
[Music]

1319
00:52:45,750 --> 00:52:44,400
and so there we go another wrap-up of

1320
00:52:48,549 --> 00:52:45,760
looking through the archives for

1321
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:48,559
paranormal psychics ufos

1322
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:50,400
and such

1323
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:52,559
it's rich pickings there's much more to

1324
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:55,839
come and it's a really interesting thing

1325
00:52:58,630 --> 00:52:56,880
to do

1326
00:52:59,829 --> 00:52:58,640
to look through archives and see what

1327
00:53:02,790 --> 00:52:59,839
people

1328
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:02,800
over the decades thought of

1329
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:04,559
the paranormal

1330
00:53:09,349 --> 00:53:06,960
and you too can harvest the rich

1331
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:09,359
pickings at trove or any

1332
00:53:14,990 --> 00:53:11,920
online uh database of newspapers and so

1333
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:15,000
on but here in australia just go to

1334
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:16,800
trove.nla.gov.edu well of course you can

1335
00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:19,200
do that from all around the world

1336
00:53:23,140 --> 00:53:20,960
and you'll never know

1337
00:53:45,990 --> 00:53:23,150
what you might find

1338
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:47,670
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1339
00:53:53,349 --> 00:53:49,839
zone and as ever thank you to my

1340
00:53:55,589 --> 00:53:53,359
patreons and my supporters and my better

1341
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:55,599
factors out there via paypal who support

1342
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:57,839
the show every week with micro payments

1343
00:54:03,030 --> 00:54:00,800
or once a month via paypal it all

1344
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:03,040
goes to making the show possible for

1345
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:04,880
everybody else to listen to so we are

1346
00:54:08,710 --> 00:54:05,760
all

1347
00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:08,720
very grateful for you wonderful people

1348
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:10,800
now here's a note from my friends in

1349
00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:14,079
canberra skeptics they want me to remind

1350
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:16,960
you that the pint of science program

1351
00:54:23,670 --> 00:54:20,559
it's a festival pint of science festival

1352
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:23,680
9th 11th of may

1353
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:25,440
and they're looking for

1354
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:26,640
speakers

1355
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:28,640
and i'll link to this in the show notes

1356
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:31,680
expressions of interest to present at

1357
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,240
pint of science 2022

1358
00:54:38,230 --> 00:54:36,240
and this is sort of like uh

1359
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:38,240
science for the masses of science in the

1360
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:41,040
pub grab a pint of beer or maybe ginger

1361
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:44,079
beer and listen to some great science

1362
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:46,640
and who knows hopefully by

1363
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:50,000
may i may be able to get out in person

1364
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:52,240
and interview some scientists with this

1365
00:54:54,789 --> 00:54:53,440
program

1366
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:54,799
now i don't know if you can hear it but

1367
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:56,480
the birds outside the skeptic's own

1368
00:54:59,829 --> 00:54:58,400
studio are going bonkers what's going on

1369
00:55:08,390 --> 00:54:59,839
out there

1370
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:15,000
what's going on out

1371
00:55:15,010 --> 00:55:18,829
[Applause]

1372
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:21,430
there they go well you know that's not

1373
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:24,240
too bad i suppose

1374
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:25,839
normally i stop for the birds but i'll

1375
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:27,839
let them chirp at the moment

1376
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:30,319
because they're not stopping

1377
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:33,040
hmm while the birds are chirping

1378
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:38,950
i don't know what's going on there

1379
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:41,520
this is richard saunders signing off

1380
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:49,510
you've been listening to the skeptic

1381
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:50,960
zone podcast

1382
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:52,319
please visit our website at

1383
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:58,549
for show notes contacts and to access

1384
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:01,119
the back catalog of episodes going back

1385
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:03,359
to 2008.

1386
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:05,280
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1387
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:08,000
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1388
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:10,160
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1389
00:56:14,549 --> 00:56:12,480
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1390
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:14,559
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1391
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:17,760
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1392
00:56:22,710 --> 00:56:21,119
podcast is an independent production the

1393
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:22,720
views and opinions expressed on the

1394
00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:25,040
skeptic zone are not necessarily those